I've been thinking about setting up a new Facebook group dedicated to counter factual, historically plausible miniature wargaming, having not been able to find anything like this online. This would not be alternate geopolitical history as such, in other words not 'What if the Nazis won WW2 by use of wonder weapons?' but would focus on specific turning points in known history, when events might have had potential outcomes different from reality.
I'm thinking here of the wargaming chestnuts like Operation Sealion, the Schlieffen Plan, War Plan Orange, the Cold War, Hot War genre or even famous historical flashpoints like the Fashoda Incident. This is bread and butter stuff for naval wagamers, myself included, so I have played quite a few mini-campaigns in this vein, including the Indonesian Confrontation of the mid 1960's and Anglo-French naval clashes in the 1870's. Perhaps the classic example of the sort of thing I'm thinking of is the late Victorian 'invasion' scare of the 1880-90's which spawned the famous Battle of Dorking counterfactual book by Sir George Timkyns Chesney.
Obviously, there would be no room for Victorian sci-fi, Nazi werewolves, Martian invasions or other weird stuff, as the premise is historical not fantasy. There are lots of other groups for this sort of craziness, so the focus would definitely be on historically possible or even probable events, with the caveat that they must be based on real situations that could have occurred in a plausible or at least believable way. There would be no other limitations, so naval, air and land based wargaming in various scales would be allowed, as long as miniatures were involved.
If this is of interest or if you have any thoughts drop me a line and I'd be very happy to take your ideas on board.
Sounds like a good idea, I'd expect to see people pushing the boundaries quite a bit :)
ReplyDeleteEvery Facebook group has people who push the boundaries. Administering/Moderating them is a lot of fun :)
DeleteGood idea, over the past 18 months I have been gaming a siege of Louisbourg 1747 based on the idea that after Bonnie Prince Charlie's defeat at Culloden he went to America to start a war. Now I am doing a British invasion of Cuba 1762 with Prussian support against the Spanish with French support.
ReplyDeleteI have also run several WW2 Operation Sealion games, naval and land based. Another idea was (mainly to use all my WW2 stuff) world civil war 1938 - 1948, WW2 does not happen which could have been possible if governments took different decisions.
Your group idea sounds interesting.
Willz.
I rather fancied the back story to “Southern Strategy” in the anthology Alternate Generals II. Basically, Wilson keeps America out of WWI and brokers a peace, leaving Germany and Austria-Hungary in place. The WWII analogy is between the League of Nations and Japan, with Germany supplying the shock troops. Presumably the High Seas fleet is not scuttled, but modernized like other navies post war, and fights Japan’s navy. The story is on-line here, although it is mostly the political events in 1950s U.S. resulting from the back story: https://www.baen.com/Chapters/0743435281/0743435281___2.htm
ReplyDeleteFrom my own interest in colonial Africa there are certainly a number of potential flash points between the European powers that could of turned hot. Fashoda is the obvious one. The Portuguese attacked territory of the Sultan of Zanzibar, captured a German ship and bombarded a settlement of British Indian merchants which almost caused a war Zanzibar and could have started a war with the Germans. The British and Portuguese almost came to blows, and in fact the BSAC police did attack Portuguese soldiers in Manicaland, several times on the boarders of present day Mozambique and Malawi. There was potential for the BSAC and Congo free state to clash along the copper belt in what is now Katanga as well.
ReplyDeleteThis interests me greatly. Two Ideas I've had kicking around (not acted upon obviously!) for a while are Napoleon being defeated at Austerlitz and Alexander being killed at the Granicus.
ReplyDeleteThe first scenario leaves the Holy Roman Empire intact into the 19th century but with the 18th century status quo; and Russia free to expand against the crumbling Ottoman Empire.
The second scenario sees Athens ascendant in Greece, expanding into the Mediterranean, war with Carthage, who then use Roman allies to defeat Athens on land. Rome then becomes the dominant Mediterranean power and expands eastwards, eventually running into the Persian Empire.
I think a Facebook group might just get this project going again!
I'm sure it must've been done before but always fancied a WW1 Mediterranean naval campaign where the Italians are induced to join the Central Powers (promised the Duchy of Savoy back from France?). The Austro-Hungarian and Italian navies will overmatch the French so the British might have to send support but at the risk of reducing their margin of superiority in the North Sea.
ReplyDeleteWe're playing a SEALION game tomorrow evening in Christchurch New Zealand as it happens. Didn't Lawrence Freedman write a book about recurring war scares and the narratives that went with them? Battle of Dorking, World War III in the 80s etc?
ReplyDeleteWhere does VBCW sit? Is it 'plausible' enough?
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't seem any less plausible than any of the other examples in the post.
DeleteThere's also 'A Right Bloody Mess' which was around several years ago now and, set in a similar period, covered civil strife in Australia*.
*And not just against the emus.
Oh yes please. We play a lot of what if games. Often based around what if the Washington treaty had not been ratified. A fortnight ago we played Nimitz with Lexington and Saratoga vs akagi and Kaga with not a plane in sight😁. So if you set it up I will come!
ReplyDeleteI'd certainly be interested in such a group.
ReplyDeleteYes, good idea. I am presently putting together a Sealion game and an early 1930's conflict between France, Italy and Britain in the Sedan. Other ideas include a war in early 1930's Europe with Britain, France and Germany allied against Russia.
ReplyDeleteJim -
ReplyDeleteThis sounds like just the thing! I am reminded of the David Downing book 'The Moscow Option'. The premise is that returning from a visit to the Soviet Union, Hitler's aircraft runs into a storm, crashlands violently, leaving the Fuhrer in a coma. The OKW takes over the direction of the war, which leads to a concentrated thrust for Moscow.
The book was written as 'historiography', not as a novel. So were General 'Shan' Hackett's 'Third World War'. If one can get past certain questionable premises, perhaps something can be made of this. Forget the Minsk vs Bouremouth tradeoff, though: that's just nonsense.
One project I have in the pipeline has its generating circumstance in 1812. It begins thus:
"For the rest of his life, The Emperor Napoleon Bonaparte regretted his decision to pause his army about Smolensk, rather than pursue the Russian army all the way to Moscow. 'With Moscow at my mercy,' quoth he, 'the Tsar would have had no option but to seek terms'. I called this project 'The Retreat from Smolensk', the overarching idea behind a series of occasional battles as the Grande Armee abandoned the whole enterprise.
Actually, the thing was intended as a prequel to my alternate 1813 campaign that I call 'The War of the Nations'
Yes, I reckon I'd be very interested in joining a 'What if' group.
Cheers,
Ion
An excellent idea I find "What If" fascinating e.g. A different outcome for the Eureka Stockade https://pin.it/1MTTabr60
ReplyDelete